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Jagr
Jun 30, 2011 13:35:06 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 13:35:06 GMT -5
Thanks Sami. I guess we'll all be on here as soon as the FA freeze is lifted to see who can post the fastest.
And since you brought up Dustin Boyd, I should mention... I own him. Took him in the inaugural draft and never dropped him.
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Jagr
Jun 30, 2011 13:41:27 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 13:41:27 GMT -5
Also, I agree with Sami in principle that first come, first serve is most appropriate for a player like this who's been available all along. But practically, how will it work with a guy like Jagr who many people will want? We could have 10 posts claiming him in the space of a minute, with no real way of determining who was first. Not to mention, all our clocks are probably different by a minute or two, so someone could conceivably jump the gun and claim him a minute early due to their clock being off by a minute. It seems to me that in this case we may need to come up with a unique way of deciding it. Perhaps some form of lottery would be best.
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Jagr
Jun 30, 2011 13:48:55 GMT -5
Post by Sami (CGY) on Jun 30, 2011 13:48:55 GMT -5
We could have 10 posts claiming him in the space of a minute, with no real way of determining who was first. Not to mention, all our clocks are probably different by a minute or two, so someone could conceivably jump the gun and claim him a minute early due to their clock being off by a minute.. IF it goes FCFS (first come first serve), it would simply be the first person to post the claim in the proper folder after the freeze has been lifted. Not only does this beauty site time-stamp each post, the time is listed in the upper right-hand corner and refreshes each time you refresh a page. And Boyd and Thoresen were just examples. Both of them are actually owned in our league.
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Jagr
Jun 30, 2011 14:25:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 14:25:04 GMT -5
Aaah, didn't realize the site has its own clock up top. Perfect.
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Jagr
Jun 30, 2011 16:37:18 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 16:37:18 GMT -5
My suggestion in the last thread was to intall a post draft waiver system (ie. every player is on waivers for a period of one week after the draft). Either that or make these guys available in our draft. I'd actually rather see my 2nd option as it would only serve to strengthen our incredibly diluted draft. If we put a roster freeze on at the end of the season then there'll be an extra half dozen players to consider within the first few rounds. I'm really not sure why our draft is as long as it is but that's another topic.
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Jagr
Jun 30, 2011 18:14:39 GMT -5
Post by Staden (TOR) on Jun 30, 2011 18:14:39 GMT -5
First come first serve is madness. While usually i agree 100% with he would regualrly be first come first serve, coming off of a waiver freeze that plan is ridiculous. And if it does come down to that an exact date and time had better be posted for when the roster freeze is up.
Alternatively, we could do a very more real FA option where each team gives up picks in next years prospect draft for him, the best offer wins. if two people offer a 1st rounder then the first one to offer it gets him, give it a few days so everyone has a shot at him and at the end the best offer gets him. then when next years draft comes up those picks are skipped (like round 3 #8 in this years NHL draft).
this way noone is favoured other than the person that wants him the most, who is the person that should get him anyways. It's not who had lowest position, putting top teams out, Its not who has the most free time on their schedule and lives in the lucky timezone, which first come first serve favours.
Because really the first come first serve is a joke coming off a FA freeze, with people in all different time zones.
and while on the matter this could be applied to anyone that becomes available out of nowhere (signings from europe, College, lower leagues), it made me sad when Akeson was grabbed hours after he signed after i had been keeping an eye on him for months because he signed a contract while I was unable to see that he signed it.
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Jagr
Jun 30, 2011 19:02:16 GMT -5
Post by Sami (CGY) on Jun 30, 2011 19:02:16 GMT -5
And if it does come down to that an exact date and time had better be posted for when the roster freeze is up. We had the exact same situation going into last season where we had a roster freeze and then free agency began on a set time that was posted two weeks in advance. It seemed to work out just fine, and there were numerous players that had only signed on with teams during our roster freeze. I'm really surprised that this is as big a deal as it is now, considering how nobody mentioned this last year. If it's the name "Jagr" that has everyone concerned, I'm pretty sure that he'll contribute less than some of the players that were nabbed during free agency last year. Alternatively, we could do a very more real FA option where each team gives up picks in next years prospect draft for him, the best offer wins. This seems better to me than a waiver process. I just don't see the justification for why bottom-dwelling teams should have first crack at a player that anyone could have signed prior to the roster freeze.
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Jagr
Jun 30, 2011 19:54:10 GMT -5
Post by uofmehockey on Jun 30, 2011 19:54:10 GMT -5
The justification for why bottom-dwelling teams should get first crack is because GOOD teams are already good why should we make it easier for them to give up less valuable draft picks (because they're good) to get even better? OR bid them up to make lower teams have to give up more valuable picks. There is something called revenue sharing and salary caps in nearly all professional North American leagues of which we model one that has both which are advantages for the teams that have a hard time in the real world doing well. I don't see why we should be any different?
Also I think giving up picks will make the draft a disaster logistically with lots of blanks and harder to track. Absolutely against that idea.
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Jagr
Jun 30, 2011 20:19:33 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 20:19:33 GMT -5
But in the NHL, the weaker teams aren't privileged when Jagr decides to come back from Europe. All teams get a crack at him, and it has nothing to do with revenue sharing or cap or anything else. In fact, in the NHL Jagr is only considering contending teams, not the weak teams - so perhaps we should weight it in favour of the top teams? :-)
Kidding with that last comment of course. But I don't think the weak teams should necessarily get first crack at an FA like Jagr. They get the top picks in the draft, just like the NHL. Whatever system we put in place for this type of situation, I think all teams should have a chance to sign him.
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Jagr
Jun 30, 2011 20:30:24 GMT -5
Post by jager19 on Jun 30, 2011 20:30:24 GMT -5
Even though we are trying to model this league similar to the NHL, there are ALOT of things we can't do the same. And #1 is...we can't lure a player to our teams by offering money or showing him that we have a great fitting team for him to join. Therefore, we need to be a little realistic for players that have been dropped, left the NHL, dropped in our league and then finally came back in the off-season. If this happened during the season the lowest WW team that put in a request would get him, however this isn't the case.
My opinion, put all 30 teams in a random (non-weighted) draw for issues like this that occur in the offseason.
Thats just my opinion, as there are many uncontrollable factors as to why we can't have the exact same rules and the NHL.
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Jagr
Jun 30, 2011 20:34:02 GMT -5
Post by uofmehockey on Jun 30, 2011 20:34:02 GMT -5
very true jager
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Jagr
Jun 30, 2011 20:41:27 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 20:41:27 GMT -5
The justification for why bottom-dwelling teams should get first crack is because GOOD teams are already good why should we make it easier for them to give up less valuable draft picks (because they're good) to get even better? OR bid them up to make lower teams have to give up more valuable picks. There is something called revenue sharing and salary caps in nearly all professional North American leagues of which we model one that has both which are advantages for the teams that have a hard time in the real world doing well. I don't see why we should be any different? Also I think giving up picks will make the draft a disaster logistically with lots of blanks and harder to track. Absolutely against that idea. I completely agree. The WW system is to promote league parity and that is an essential component to having a strong, stable league. So, I'd like to put a proposal forward that is simple to implement and makes the draft more interesting. Freeze FA activity at the end of the regular season and make everyone signed during that time or who were previously available as FA's available in the draft.
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Jagr
Jun 30, 2011 20:50:15 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 20:50:15 GMT -5
"We had the exact same situation going into last season where we had a roster freeze and then free agency began on a set time that was posted two weeks in advance. It seemed to work out just fine, and there were numerous players that had only signed on with teams during our roster freeze. I'm really surprised that this is as big a deal as it is now, considering how nobody mentioned this last year. If it's the name "Jagr" that has everyone concerned, I'm pretty sure that he'll contribute less than some of the players that were nabbed during free agency last year."
Jagr has nothing to do with this as far as I'm concerned. I'm a team that would have no chance at getting him in a waiver system so that couldn't possibly be my angle.
The idea of using league precedent in our 2nd year of existence holds no water with me. We made lots of mistakes, time to correct a few.
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Jagr
Jun 30, 2011 21:57:58 GMT -5
Post by Staden (TOR) on Jun 30, 2011 21:57:58 GMT -5
Even though we are trying to model this league similar to the NHL, there are ALOT of things we can't do the same. And #1 is...we can't lure a player to our teams by offering money or showing him that we have a great fitting team for him to join. Therefore, we need to be a little realistic for players that have been dropped, left the NHL, dropped in our league and then finally came back in the off-season. My opinion, put all 30 teams in a random (non-weighted) draw for issues like this that occur in the offseason. I agree completely. There are many things the NHL can do that we cannot. I am up for everyone getting an even crack at anyone but first come first serve doesn't make sense in a situation like this. As for last year there wasn't any high profile signings during the freeze, so it isn't the same at all. And you can't say Jagr isn't a high profile FA, especially if he goes to pittsburgh. He could easily get injured or not do anything good. but , a guy that won many scoring titles, left the league with a 71 point season, continued scoring in KHL, and got 9 points in the 9 games he played at Vancouver. I am also fine with a totally random selection of the teams that say they want him.
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Jagr
Jul 1, 2011 14:16:02 GMT -5
Post by PineRider (SJ) on Jul 1, 2011 14:16:02 GMT -5
Happy Canada Day folks.
Not sure how workable this is in this league, but why don't we put free agents up for bids?
Teams can then decide how badly they want a free agent - Jagr or otherwise, and it also factors in salary caps.
This helps with the parity issue, because the strong teams likely have higher salaries (or spent too much money on bad players), and it also rewards those who manage the money and have available cap space.
I'm against random because it's just too... random. As fantasy GM's, we make calculated decisions and take calculated risks just like real GM's. Random takes some of the strategy out of it.
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