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Post by zaphod (NYI) on Oct 22, 2014 20:26:48 GMT -5
as I suggested in another thread - dirt30.proboards.com/thread/1140/roster-violations?page=6 - a draft lottery based upon the NHL's model can help to deter teams from tanking for the last pick. It is not the only rule we may want to implement but it is the easiest one, imo. What I propose is to link our final standings with that of the NHL's and follow their style of draft lottery. Meaning our 30th team is slotted in with the NHL's 30th team and so forth, moving up the rankings of non-play-off teams so that whoever wins the draft lottry in the NHL will win it for our league.
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Post by zaphod (NYI) on Oct 23, 2014 0:51:04 GMT -5
To restate my reasoning for this changeI, and a few others here, are in a league called ZFHL. We have used the draft lottery from inception and it has never been the reason a team can't rebuild. The salary cap is much more a factor in player movement than the draft. The draft itself is a lottery. It's an educated lottery but it is still a lottery. www2.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=18342The near 20 year history of the NHL draft lottery. So using my other league, ZFHL, as the example as it is a fantasy league, different values than the NHL, in that league we follow the NHL's lottery draft as the template. Meaning the D30 30th ranked team will be lined up with the NHL's 30th ranked team for lottery purposes. this allows the NHL to do the lottery process without any concerns for GM's about the clarity of the process. The ZFHL has used the lottery since it's first draft in 2007. In that time 5 out of 8 times the 30th team did not win the lottery. 1 of those times, the team winning (NJ-2011) ranked 8th and was only able to move up 4 spots. That changes in the new NHL CBA. so of the remaining 4, the results have been: 2007 - SJS finished last(and traded the pick to CBJ). EDM won the lottery EDM - Patrick Kane CBJ - Kyle Turris 2012 - PHI finished last(and traded the pick to CHI). OTT won the lottery OTT - Nail Yakupov CHI - Alex Galchenyuk 2013 - PHI finished last. DET won the lottery DET - Nathan MacKinnon PHI - Jonathan Drouin 2014 - NJD finished last. LAK won the lottery LAK - Sam Reinhart NJD - Leon Draisaitl it is probably too soon to tell on most of these and the 2007 lottery, it is easy to say that EDM won that particular situation but it is certainly not destroying the franchise that finishes last for them not to get the #1 pick. hell, with how bad Edmonton has been at managing and developing their prospects, it might have helped. I know in that same league, in 2011 I was bummed to finish 29th and not have a chance at RNH but at this point, I am happy I got Landeskog over RNH. to contrast in this league2012 - BUF finished last. NJD finished 2nd(and traded the pick to CHI) and would have won the lottery. presuming the players go in the same order CHI - Nail Yakupov BUF - Alex Galchenyuk 2013 - PHO finished last. FLA 2nd and would have won the lottery FLA - Nathan MacKinnon PHO - Jonathan Drouin 2014 - CBJ finished last. FLA 2nd and would have won the lottery FLA - Sam Bennett CBJ - Aaron Ekblad so again, it is hard to say, but it is not a change that kills a franchises rebuild by any stretch.
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Post by Ken (ANA) on Oct 23, 2014 15:05:32 GMT -5
I don't feel that strongly about a draft lottery either way, I voted "Don't care" (no one else has to reveal their vote, I'm stating that so everyone is clear on my position).
My only question is if its really worth all the trouble? We're going to need a whole new section of rules along with other items we'll need to address as they come up.
I know the rationale behind the lottery draft is that people who finish last in the league won't be guaranteed the 1st overall pick and its used as an tanking deterrent. But we've also been presented with a lot of data that shows having a lottery and not having a lottery doesn't make a big difference. Neither scenario makes or breaks a franchise and a bottom team would still be motivated to tank to get the best odds at the 1st overall pick.
If I'm a bottom team and I plan on tanking, I know I won't be guaranteed the 1st overall pick if I tank, but if I tank, I have the best odds at getting the 1st overall pick, so why wouldn't I tank anyways?
To me, a lottery could potentially alter the draft order and it could be a fun game mechanism to create some uncertainty in the league (and I'm completely on board if that's the reason), but I don't think its an effective anti-tanking mechanism at all because the motivation and incentive to tank remains the same.
Again, it doesn't matter to me whether there's a draft lottery or not. But if we're going to implement a lottery to deter tanking, can someone please provide some data or arguments as to how this will accomplish that?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 16:21:05 GMT -5
if the NHL model is followed, it will allow only the "winning" team of taking the #1 pick (this year) but in subsequent years it will be a full lottery for 14 teams. is this correct?
*edit* I voted Yes, i think it overall is a good idea, but want to know the specifics
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Post by JetsGM on Oct 23, 2014 23:42:42 GMT -5
I don't see a reason to institute the lottery. I feel we just need to continue to monitor teams and enforce the competitive standards that we already have. The season is only 16 days old and we're already having a rather large discussion of tanking and changing a number of rules. if a GM is deliberately subverting our roster standards then there will be penalties and/or expulsion. If a GM is inadvertently subverting roster rules due to inactivity aka negligence then they will contacted and if the inactivity is deemed to be too long then they will be replaced. If a team just has a bad squad, but they comply with roster standards then they'll get the pick they deserve. Moderators along with the large number of active GMs here will continue to keep an eye out for any potential issues which will then be dealt with accordingly. my 2cents
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2014 7:42:50 GMT -5
I don't see a reason to institute the lottery. I feel we just need to continue to monitor teams and enforce the competitive standards that we already have. The season is only 16 days old and we're already having a rather large discussion of tanking and changing a number of rules. if a GM is deliberately subverting our roster standards then there will be penalties and/or expulsion. If a GM is inadvertently subverting roster rules due to inactivity aka negligence then they will contacted and if the inactivity is deemed to be too long then they will be replaced. If a team just has a bad squad, but they comply with roster standards then they'll get the pick they deserve. Moderators along with the large number of active GMs here will continue to keep an eye out for any potential issues which will then be dealt with accordingly. my 2cents Was the intention of your post to cut off the spirited discussion that's taking place here and other places on the boards? Maybe I'm misreading it....I hope so
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Post by JetsGM on Oct 24, 2014 11:57:30 GMT -5
Was the intention of your post to cut off the spirited discussion that's taking place here and other places on the boards? Maybe I'm misreading it....I hope so No, i'm not sure where in my post i said we shouldn't talk about league issues. I've long been an advocate for discussing league issues publicly and have pushed for polls and votes over the years. I voted in this poll and decided to add my 2cents on these issues which I haven't previously, that's all.
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Post by burnsy8801 on Oct 24, 2014 13:01:01 GMT -5
If a draft lottery were to go through I don't think it should be put in place until after the 2016 draft. I have made trades and plans geared toward the 2015 draft and that was done with no draft lottery in place.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2014 13:20:44 GMT -5
No, i'm not sure where in my post i said we shouldn't talk about league issues. I've long been an advocate for discussing league issues publicly and have pushed for polls and votes over the years. I voted in this poll and decided to add my 2cents on these issues which I haven't previously, that's all. It came across that way to me but obviously that wasn't the way it was intended so it's all good!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2014 17:00:31 GMT -5
If a draft lottery were to go through I don't think it should be put in place until after the 2016 draft. I have made trades and plans geared toward the 2015 draft and that was done with no draft lottery in place. I do agree that this should not be put in place till after this season - even though this upcoming draft is why we're trying to discourage tanking...for the exact reason Burnsy mentions with his last sentence. Another question - does this get passed with a majority vote? Or does it need to be 70% yes or 80% yes?
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Post by magicstew on Oct 25, 2014 11:38:11 GMT -5
If a draft lottery were to go through I don't think it should be put in place until after the 2016 draft. I have made trades and plans geared toward the 2015 draft and that was done with no draft lottery in place. I agree with Burnsy here that it should be implemented for the following season. We would have to look at being diligent on the bottom teams to make sure they are following the rules. Also the bottom teams could also look at policing themselves as it would be in there best interest to make sure the competition isn't bending the rules.
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Post by burnsy8801 on Oct 25, 2014 15:03:41 GMT -5
Also there is a typo in my comment. I meant to say that it shouldn't be put into place until after the 2015 draft. But it could be put in place for the 2016 draft.
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Post by zaphod (NYI) on Oct 25, 2014 16:46:01 GMT -5
to be honest, I just threw this poll out here, I leave it to UofMe to deal with official polls.
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Post by zaphod (NYI) on Oct 25, 2014 16:51:52 GMT -5
this kind of change can even be put off to take place until 2018 or beyond. I think it's an important tool because, though it might not have had a huge affect to past drafts but it doesn't mean it can't have a huge effect.
but if we are going to act seriously regarding rules against tanking and draft spots the offending team gets penalized for tanking, then this is really just a fun mechanism to add to the game and I am fine with that, also.
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