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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 10:26:26 GMT -5
I'm actually not bothered by tanking at all. I agree that rebuilding should be encouraged so there will be competitive teams in the future and tanking is the most efficient way of doing that as well. The only concern I have (and potentially other GMs as well) is that people should be tanking within the tanking rules. Just like competitive teams need to make their rosters as competitive as possible but within the rules, tanking teams also have a set of rules to abide by to make their team as worst as possible. Like you said, I don't care who finishes 28th or 25th, but I do care that bottom teams are complying to the tanking rules. I'm not trying to pick on any GMs here, I'm just trying to foster an environment where I think we're pretty much on the same page here with the exception that I'm suggesting we make a minor alteration to our rules as they're written.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 16:52:12 GMT -5
Should we vote on adding a lottery? I doubt it makes a major impact on tanking in this league but it could help a little bit. And the NHL has it which we try to mimic. Thoughts?
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Post by zaphod (NYI) on Oct 22, 2014 17:11:02 GMT -5
Should we vote on adding a lottery? I doubt it makes a major impact on tanking in this league but it could help a little bit. And the NHL has it which we try to mimic. Thoughts? I was flabbergasted that we don't have a lottery when I joined. to me it is a no-brainer.
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Post by Ken (ANA) on Oct 22, 2014 17:26:24 GMT -5
Once upon a time (back in 2011, I did a quick search for the word "lottery" in the boards), apparently we had a vote on the lottery. dirt30.proboards.com/post/377/threadI couldn't find any information on why the league ended up scrapping this idea in the end. Perhaps one of the original DTDL members could enlighten the rest of the newer members as to the league's history regarding the implementation of a draft lottery. Perhaps we could also consider moving this discussion to the "League Operations and Issues Discussions" section as it may be more appropriate there.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 17:31:54 GMT -5
Should we vote on adding a lottery? I doubt it makes a major impact on tanking in this league but it could help a little bit. And the NHL has it which we try to mimic. Thoughts? NHL teams can rebuild their franchise through signing FA's and we can not. This poses a major obstacle for horrible teams trying to rebuild if they get screwed in a lottery draft. If we're going to go with an NHL style lottery system then the only way to even the playing field is to mimic NHL contract lengths also (eg. when your player comes off of his first UFA contract he's now up for grabs in a bidding process). Please head on over to the thread I created for discussing tanking and share your thoughts there so we can come to a consensus on what it is this league wants to strive for.
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Post by zaphod (NYI) on Oct 22, 2014 18:32:51 GMT -5
I, and a few others here, are in a league called ZFHL. We have used the draft lottery from inception and it has never been the reason a team can't rebuild. The salary cap is much more a factor in player movement than the draft. The draft itself is a lottery. It's an educated lottery but it is still a lottery. www2.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=18342The near 20 year history of the NHL draft lottery. So using my other league, ZFHL, as the example as it is a fantasy league, different values than the NHL, in that league we follow the NHL's lottery draft as the template. Meaning the D30 30th ranked team will be lined up with the NHL's 30th ranked team for lottery purposes. this allows the NHL to do the lottery process without any concerns for GM's about the clarity of the process. The ZFHL has used the lottery since it's first draft in 2007. In that time 5 out of 8 times the 30th team did not win the lottery. 1 of those times, the team winning (NJ-2011) ranked 8th and was only able to move up 4 spots. That changes in the new NHL CBA. so of the remaining 4, the results have been: 2007 - SJS finished last(and traded the pick to CBJ). EDM won the lottery EDM - Patrick Kane CBJ - Kyle Turris 2012 - PHI finished last(and traded the pick to CHI). OTT won the lottery OTT - Nail Yakupov CHI - Alex Galchenyuk 2013 - PHI finished last. DET won the lottery DET - Nathan MacKinnon PHI - Jonathan Drouin 2014 - NJD finished last. LAK won the lottery LAK - Sam Reinhart NJD - Leon Draisaitl it is probably too soon to tell on most of these and the 2007 lottery, it is easy to say that EDM won that particular situation but it is certainly not destroying the franchise that finishes last for them not to get the #1 pick. hell, with how bad Edmonton has been at managing and developing their prospects, it might have helped. I know in that same league, in 2011 I was bummed to finish 29th and not have a chance at RNH but at this point, I am happy I got Landeskog over RNH.
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Post by zaphod (NYI) on Oct 22, 2014 18:40:03 GMT -5
to contrast in this league
2012 - BUF finished last. NJD finished 2nd(and traded the pick to CHI) and would have won the lottery. presuming the players go in the same order CHI - Nail Yakupov BUF - Alex Galchenyuk
2013 - PHO finished last. FLA 2nd and would have won the lottery FLA - Nathan MacKinnon PHO - Jonathan Drouin
2014 - CBJ finished last. FLA 2nd and would have won the lottery FLA - Sam Bennett CBJ - Aaron Ekblad
so again, it is hard to say, but it is not a change that kills a franchises rebuild by any stretch.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 6:06:29 GMT -5
I apologize. I have been slacking off a bit on fantasy hockey in general, and haven't been as dilligent as I should be.
Schmidt vs Holland against a team that is going to crush me regardless is hardly deliberate tanking. It's a case of insufficient effort on my part.
I can fix that.
I have more to say on the subject but I need to get to work. Back later.
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Post by Ken (ANA) on Oct 23, 2014 10:11:38 GMT -5
NYR has been getting a lot of flack lately because he's at the bottom of the standings but I think we need to identify other instances as well. My original post was for Columbus. I'm not trying to pick on anyone. Its just that if we point out ed's team, we should examine banger's team too. I did some digging similarly to what zaphod did for NYR
October 9 Campbell and Schlemko on active roster but not playing. Marincin is in minors but on active roster. Jeffrey in minors but is on bench Garrison and Letang playing but on bench when 2 players who were not playing (one still in minors) is on active roster Connolly playing but on farm team while Jeffrey is on bench
October 11 Connolly playing but on farm team while Colin McDonald was on active roster and not playing.
For this period, had all the players on the bench or minors played when they were supposed to, Columbus would have won SOG and Hits that week and won the H2H 8 to 7, but instead of losing 9-6
October 14 Connolly playing but on farm team. Four open forward spots. Brian Hart is on bench despite being in minors
October 15 6 open defence spots Schlemko is on bench
October 17 5 open forward spots 6 open defence spots 3 minor league players on active roster or bench Hayes, Mitchell and Marincin all playing but either on bench or farm team
October 18 3 minor league players on active roster or bench Connolly playing but on farm team
October 19 9 open forward spot 6 open defence spots Parise and Marc Staal playing but on bench
For this period, had all the players on the bench or minors played when they were supposed to, Columbus would have won +/- and SOG that week and the score would have been 10-5 instead of 12-3.
That's 8 points right there and that's just the first 2 scoring periods. I haven't looked at this week, but there's still 4 minor players on his active roster or bench and there's 2 nhl players on his farm team.
Just saying, if we're going to point out NYR. We should point out other teams and I noticed Columbus. That being said, we should give Columbus a chance to explain the situation.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 13:02:55 GMT -5
Okay, I apologize even further now that I realize I was negating my scoring altogether, not simply missing out on the lame output of a fringe player or two. My fault for not watching closely enough, setting lineups quickly on my phone, etc. Not deliberate tanking, I promise you, but a real problem nonetheless, and my fault, so hit me with whatever penalty you like. What confuses me is this paragraph from the roll call thread: Players should be at least fringe NHLers/NHL call ups or near NHL-ready prospects in your line up. If your active players are in Europe, in college or retired than you are not within standards and you will be considered tanking. So lets get it together guys and lets have a “Great Season!!!” "Fringe NHLers/NHL callups or near-NHL ready prospects" would seem to be at odds with "Fantrax is set to shut you down completely if you fail to notice one of your crappy d-men has been demoted". I will work to fix my roster. I honestly don't know what to do about the fact that all my over-priced rejects got hurt at once though. How does anyone build in this league if I now have to try and trade a good prospect away for a bad salary to replace Laich? Even awful players aren't cheap in this league. As for the draft lottery, the fact that we don't have one definitely makes the missed lineup periods worse. I assumed we had one, but again that is my fault for not paying more attention. I am sorry.
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Post by Ken (ANA) on Oct 27, 2014 9:55:13 GMT -5
Columbus Period 3 Roster Violations
Oct 20 3 Minor players on active roster Connelly and Marincin playing in but in minors
Oct 21 3 Minor players on active roster 2 open d spots Staal and Schlemko playing but on bench Connelly playing but in minors
Oct 22 4 Minor players on active roster Marincin playing in but in minors
Oct 23 4 open F spots 3 open D spots Parise and Schlemko playing but on bench
Oct 25 2 open F spots 1 open D spot Parise, Staal and Schlemko playing but on bench
For this period, had all the players on the bench or minors played when they were supposed to, Columbus would have won Goals and the score would have been 9-6 rather than 8-7
Adding on to last weeks total. There's a 10 point difference. I believe Columbus is active now and has fixed his lines going forward. I don't think this was necessarily purposeful tanking as we defined it on the board, but more so inactivity. But he's currently in a 3 way tie for 23rd in the league when he should be tied for 17th. That's a pretty big difference. (if the season ended today, the difference between potentially drafting 6th overall or 14tth overall)
We put a lot of emphasis on that purposeful tanking can skew the standings for the whole league, but as we can see, frequent inactivity can skew the standings quite a bit as well.
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Post by JetsGM on Oct 27, 2014 14:58:27 GMT -5
I believe Columbus is active now and has fixed his lines going forward. I don't think this was necessarily purposeful tanking as we defined it on the board, but more so inactivity. But he's Unfortunately CBJ is not active atm. After seeing his roster a couple days ago I've both pm'd and emailed him with no response. I was the one who set his lineup for the coming week. It's been over a week and half since he checked-in here or on fantrax.
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banger
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Post by banger on Oct 27, 2014 23:42:41 GMT -5
Columbus Period 3 Roster Violations Oct 20 3 Minor players on active roster Connelly and Marincin playing in but in minors Oct 21 3 Minor players on active roster 2 open d spots Staal and Schlemko playing but on bench Connelly playing but in minors Oct 22 4 Minor players on active roster Marincin playing in but in minors Oct 23 4 open F spots 3 open D spots Parise and Schlemko playing but on bench Oct 25 2 open F spots 1 open D spot Parise, Staal and Schlemko playing but on bench For this period, had all the players on the bench or minors played when they were supposed to, Columbus would have won Goals and the score would have been 9-6 rather than 8-7 Adding on to last weeks total. There's a 10 point difference. I believe Columbus is active now and has fixed his lines going forward. I don't think this was necessarily purposeful tanking as we defined it on the board, but more so inactivity. But he's currently in a 3 way tie for 23rd in the league when he should be tied for 17th. That's a pretty big difference. (if the season ended today, the difference between potentially drafting 6th overall or 14tth overall) We put a lot of emphasis on that purposeful tanking can skew the standings for the whole league, but as we can see, frequent inactivity can skew the standings quite a bit as well. Connelly is in the minors because his cap hit would lead to a real roster violation. Other days sure it's inactivity but Like everyone here sometimes after a week of 7 to 7 shifts, fantasy doesn't even come to mind. I'm sure this would be an issue if it were the last week and I was sitting bottom 2 but that's not the case. im a starting goalie away from being a playoff team and that's what I'm after. not easy to get in a league like this
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Post by Ken (ANA) on Oct 28, 2014 9:32:37 GMT -5
Columbus Period 3 Roster Violations Oct 20 3 Minor players on active roster Connelly and Marincin playing in but in minors Oct 21 3 Minor players on active roster 2 open d spots Staal and Schlemko playing but on bench Connelly playing but in minors Oct 22 4 Minor players on active roster Marincin playing in but in minors Oct 23 4 open F spots 3 open D spots Parise and Schlemko playing but on bench Oct 25 2 open F spots 1 open D spot Parise, Staal and Schlemko playing but on bench For this period, had all the players on the bench or minors played when they were supposed to, Columbus would have won Goals and the score would have been 9-6 rather than 8-7 Adding on to last weeks total. There's a 10 point difference. I believe Columbus is active now and has fixed his lines going forward. I don't think this was necessarily purposeful tanking as we defined it on the board, but more so inactivity. But he's currently in a 3 way tie for 23rd in the league when he should be tied for 17th. That's a pretty big difference. (if the season ended today, the difference between potentially drafting 6th overall or 14tth overall) We put a lot of emphasis on that purposeful tanking can skew the standings for the whole league, but as we can see, frequent inactivity can skew the standings quite a bit as well. Connelly is in the minors because his cap hit would lead to a real roster violation. Other days sure it's inactivity but Like everyone here sometimes after a week of 7 to 7 shifts, fantasy doesn't even come to mind. I'm sure this would be an issue if it were the last week and I was sitting bottom 2 but that's not the case. im a starting goalie away from being a playoff team and that's what I'm after. not easy to get in a league like this Having 4 minors in your line-up/bench while 2 NHL players are in your farm team is also a roster violation (League rules Section M and O). Why is this not considered a "real" rule? We all have work and real lives to attend to, no one is telling you to ignore your personal life for the sake of fantasy hockey. Everyone slips here and there but 3 periods of inactivity at a time seems like a bit much, doesn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 8:40:58 GMT -5
I can't believe we're back here at this thread again already this season but something just jumped out at me that must be addressed. We just had a team (one of the top teams) destroy another 14-0 !!! That jumped out at me as being a bit odd so I went to look through the roster of the losing team (Montreal) only to find that they didn't set their lineup ONCE for the entire period leaving very good players on the bench: Elias, St Louis, Girgensons, Boychuck, Hunwick and to top it off....PRICE!! This is completely unacceptable and if we're concerned about skewing league statistics in the least there must be retroactive moves made to correct this. 27 SOG, 5 assists, 22 hits, 6 blocks, 1 win with a GAA of 2.88 a SV% of 0.914 and 94 saves were all left on the table. I'm not exactly sure what this would have done to the matchup for the week. I know this would have pushed the Wins and given Montreal a point for GAA, SV% and SVs so that takes a 14-0 and turns it into a 10-3.
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